Is Everybody Interesting? Andrew McLuhan, The McLuhan Institute

What we talked about.

Andrew McLuhan, director of the McLuhan Institute and grandson of Marshall McLuhan, joins Sunny Ray to explore whether everybody is truly interesting. Speaking from Prince Edward County, where he is entering his homemade maple syrup in the local fall fair, Andrew argues that interest is subjective and often has a limited shelf life, though everyone carries at least one story worth telling. The conversation moves through curiosity, depth, and the tension between speed and substance, drawing on his years working alongside his father, Eric McLuhan, and the media theory legacy of his grandfather. Andrew reflects on parenting, boredom as a source of creativity, and how short attention spans and advertising shape what gets called interesting today. He compares reading culture to music culture, floats turning parts of Understanding Media into an EP, and warns that urgency without depth leads to shallow technological decisions. Throughout, he returns to listening over speaking, patience over speed, and curiosity as the engine behind lasting interest. The episode closes on the idea that technology shapes us as much as we shape it, and that thoughtfulness now determines what the next decades look like.

Andrew McLuhan on curiosity, depth, and whether everyone truly has a story worth hearing.

The questions, and the answers.

Is everybody interesting?

I'd say everybody is interesting, if only for a limited time. Interest is subjective and has a shelf life. Some people have one interesting idea or story, others are endlessly fascinating. My premise is that everybody is interesting, it's just a matter of finding the interesting parts, and what counts as interesting keeps shifting over time.

Have you ever met someone who seemed boring at first but turned out fascinating?

I've actually met more of the opposite, people who are personality forward or impressive at first but the impression wears off. I think that comes down to depth. Everybody has something interesting about them, but some people have more than one story, and that's what really stays with us over time.

What did your father teach you that's not in any of the books?

Mostly things implied between the lines, especially endless curiosity. Whether something is interesting depends on who's asking and from what perspective. My father and grandfather studied technology and culture, where they come from and what they do to people, and curiosity plus a healthy dissatisfaction, refusing to accept easy answers, was essential to that work.

Can you be interesting without being curious yourself?

Honestly, I find people without much curiosity very interesting, mostly because I can't relate to it. I think a lack of curiosity can be a defense mechanism against too much information. Some people come alive when overstimulated and others shut down, and being uninterested or boring can just be a reaction to that.

Does the internet make everyone interesting or no one?

The internet just provides access to information, so it's up to people whether they're active or passive with it. People go deep on what they're passionate about and effectively become experts through culture, like music. I'm actually trying to turn the first seven chapters of Understanding Media into an EP, since more people absorb knowledge through songs than books.

Has our short attention span killed the slow burn of getting to know someone?

It's not great for depth. I've noticed depth and speed are inversely related, and the shorter our attention span, the more easily our curiosity gets satisfied, which doesn't lead to real progress. It leads to superficiality and easy answers, which for me is the opposite of what we should be doing as a species.

If everybody's interesting but attention is scarce, is the real skill of our time choosing what to ignore?

There are so many hard skills right now, including what to give attention to and the ability to encounter something without immediately forming an opinion. Social media constantly demands our take on everything, which doesn't favor reflection or reasoned thought. Being human is about more than fight or flight, it's about depth and awareness other creatures don't seem to have.

What's more rare, a good talker or a good listener?

We have two ears and one mouth, so we should listen twice as much as we speak, that's a pretty good rule of thumb. We live in a world constantly urging everyone to have an opinion and a take, which creates active consumers rather than passive ones. Honestly, I've learned the smart person is usually the quiet one in most situations.