In this episode of the Sunny Ray Show, host Sunny Ray talks with Robert Wilson of Gaia Labs about why football fans in the United States and Canada should own their clubs. Wilson, a private equity investor based in Brazil, explains how Gaia Labs pairs a traditional venture model with company building projects aimed at gaps in the market. He argues that Major League Soccer underperforms relative to its market, citing revenue, payroll and stadium size comparisons with leagues in England, Germany, Spain and Brazil. He holds up the Bundesliga as the healthiest league financially and points to Flamengo in Rio as proof that a democratic, multisport, member-owned club can thrive. Wilson also recounts how Japan built the J.League by selling merchandise before the league existed, and explains how he wants to repeat that approach with a mobile app. The plan is the Football Supporters Trust League, starting with four fan-owned clubs in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Boston, with room for billionaire-owned teams alongside them. He also shares how his Brazilian club investment and his book shaped the idea.
Real Madrid, fan-owned, earns more than half of what all of MLS does. Robert Wilson explains how fan ownership could reshape football in America.
What problem are you solving at Gaia Labs?
Gaia Labs mixes a traditional blind pool venture model with company building projects that target a vacuum in the market. The market I see in the United States and Canada is fan-owned football clubs. The Green Bay Packers are grandfathered in, but members have no vote. In Germany and Latin America, fan-owned clubs generate hundreds of millions, sometimes billions, in revenue and win on the field.
What will listeners learn by the end of this episode?
They will learn there is a different way to do business and still succeed. The big four American leagues generate almost $60 billion a year, yet MLS looks like an underperforming asset for the size of the market. Real Madrid, owned by 90 plus thousand dues paying members, generated $1.4 billion, about half of what all of MLS earned after 30 years of monopoly.
Where did the idea for a new league come from?
The inspiration comes from Japan. Businessmen returned from the 1990 World Cup in Italy, and with Sony's design department they invented a league, with names, mascots, colors and kits. They sold about $200 million of merchandise over two years for a league that did not exist yet, all in walk-in sales. Today we have mobile apps and AI, so we can launch something similar.
What led you from a blog to the book and this project?
I started the blog in 2014 after the World Cup in Brazil, where the biggest group of visiting fans came from the United States. I had also invested in a first division Brazilian club as a private equity investor. It was our only write off, but a four-year education in football's business side. Four years of blogging became my book, The Football Manifesto and Club Handbook.
Which league model did you learn the most from?
The Bundesliga, without question. It is the healthiest league on the planet. Of its 36 clubs across two divisions, 28 had positive EBITDA last year, and about 24 made a profit after taxes. It has the highest attendance and the least debt. It is not the biggest revenue generator, and it lacks the Premier League's prestige and cash flow, but financially it is the best operating model.
Do you know fan ownership can work in the US and Canada?
I would not go out on a limb and say I know it will, but financially and sociologically it should work, because there are proven examples with decades of track records. I am a member of Flamengo in Rio, which has 118,000 fan owners, is democratically run, and generated about $400 million in revenue. It is also a multisport club that won six medals at the Paris Olympics.
What is the plan for launching the league?
We are structuring the launch of the Football Supporters Trust League, starting with four fan-owned clubs in New York, Chicago, LA and Boston. If fan response is there, we add another wave, aiming for 32 clubs across four regions. We are not asking billionaire MLS owners to divest. We want a hybrid league where billionaire-owned and fan-owned teams compete together.
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